Yes we are still insulating! Ugh!
Have you heard of the thermal envelope? I hadn’t either, but I have come to learn it’s very important and rather challenging to accomplish on a older home. The thermal envelope is the barrier you create between the interior and exterior elements of your house. You want to use insulation and other air and vapor barriers to keep the interior and exterior spaces separated. Currently our thermal envelope consists of interior bead board and exterior lap siding. So essentially non-existent.
We started to insulate the second floor with our thermal envelope going down the sloped ceiling, behind the knee walls, over the first floor ceiling and down the outside walls (the left side of the picture).
(Photo credit: Davis Air)
That leaves the space A as unconditioned. That means it would be hot in the summer and cold in the winter. This is how we were advised to do it by the building inspector and it made sense. So what this entailed was placing insulation along all these surfaces and then wrapping the back side of the knee walls and slanted ceiling with housewrap (an air barrier that is vapor permeable). It had to be wrapped to prevent outside air getting into the living space from the area behind the knee wall, but still allow moisture to move through and prevent it from collecting in the wall spaces and growing mold. We got as far as insulating all the areas and then we had an aha moment. How and the heck were we going to wrap the knee walls? I could hardly fit back there let along Steve and the wrapping had to be done really well to create the needed barrier so a sloppy quick, get in and get out, job wasn’t going to work. That halted the project and of course this happened at 4:00pm on a Friday. Steve and I both got on our phones and called our contacts. I called the building inspector and Steve called Don Harrington, who built our garage and who will put up the connector room (who also has been a wonderful hands on mentor). No answer for either one!
I hit the internet and quickly found out we should have applied the house wrap first. Okay, but that really didn’t solve our problem. We couldn’t get back there to do the job the way it needed to be done with or without insulation in first. Really the only way to continue in the direction we were going was to rip out the first floor ceiling so we could access the space behind the knee wall. Not a bad idea, but we are not ready to demo the first floor yet so that was out.
We decided I would do some research and Steve would work on putting in the second window.
That didn’t take him long, but we are so limited in the hours we can work. The temperatures have been in the mid 90’s and the attic has reached 109.9. It gets so hot that some new lumber Steve has put in to frame Zach’s window was oozing sap.
We have to start early around 7 and have to quit by 11-12. It certainly is not conducive to getting much done but it gets unbearable.
After lots of research, lots of discussion and vacillating about what to do, we finally accepted that we had to re-do the thermal envelope. We did not set out to do this remodel in a half-assed way. If we kept moving forward the way we were going it would be half-assed. So, reluctantly we both agreed we had to move the thermal envelope out to include the entire roof and down the first floor walls (right side of picture).
This would keep the entire attic in a conditioned space, meaning the air in the areas behind the knee walls would be the same as the air in the rest of the house. This made so much more sense for so many reasons. All the recessed lights we were going to put in on the first floor would not have to have insulated housings now. We wouldn’t have to insulate the access doors to the attic space. We wouldn’t have to wrap the knee walls.
It did however present other challenges. It meant we had to insulate the entire roof, which is slanted and difficult to keep insulation in. It also meant Steve would have to access some tight spaces to be able to insulate the small gabled ends on the North and East sides of the house. Lastly, we still had issues with the house wrap. It would need to be applied over the entire roof and there are very tight spaces where the roof meets the outer walls. This also meant we had to remove about 50% of the insulation we (mostly Steve) installed. Steve hates to insulate and the thought of having to undo two weekends worth of work and re-do it was painful.
I removed the insulation in the knee walls and over the first floor ceiling and stacked it in piles around the upstairs.
Then last weekend we started on the North roof. Steve got in behind the knee wall and put up any needed baffles, then measured the size piece of insulation he needed and I try to locate a piece pre-cut (that we took out) or I re-size something to fit. He then fits it in and staples twine from rafter to rafter to hold it in place and we move on to the next one. It’s very slow going. He is dong all this lying on his back on a piece of plywood that he slides along as he goes.It is exhausting work.
He is my hero!
We finished the North side of the house last weekend, including the North and East gables.
This weekend we will finish the south side and be ready for inspection next week, at least that is the plan!
Never in my wildest dreams did I think we would be still working on the upstairs a year after moving here. I have to keep reminding myself that he has a full time job and this remodel is a part time project!
Next up, see how my application to be the general contractor of the downstairs remodel comes out! Keep your fingers crossed!
Steve & Kim: Is this vapor barrier placed over the roof sheathing and your air chutes, then covering each roof rafter, and then the insulation installed and held in place with the twine? The MFD boards would then be placed over the insulation and attached to the roof rafters. This is different than what I am use to, probably because of weather conditions. I find it very interesting. Had anyone mentioned placing the vapor barrier over the roof sheathing before re-shingling the roof?
Kim I think we could use you at Habitat. You know how to research, follow-up and get answers so decisions get made to keep projects going. We just hired a Construction Manager, Our previous CM, was very good at knowing how to put a house together, instruct volunteers, but fell short on follow-up and getting pricing and getting decisions. He found another job that had better benefits for his young family and better hours, so he should be OK as long as he likes his new job. I have been helping with some of the follow-up to get some of the jobs closed out. We will see how the new fellow works out. Habitat is growing too fast right now and it is hard to find knowledgeable people. I like new product, I need to replace our solarium wall materials. I need something that is not so attractive to spiders. They like the traction they are able to get from the cedar T&G boards. I have been looking for a prefinished material that is 24 inches wide, installed in sheets with groves between sheets. I have seen it on commercial installations but have not found it, but I have not been doing much research, seem to run out of time.
Good Work, wish I was there, don’t like seeing you have all the fun.
Love, DaD
I think Steve’s call to you last night answered your questions. It’s quite a challenge to remodel an existing, older home and bring it up to code. We are learning a lot! We hope you can come join the “fun” soon! Love, Kim
Looks like so much work. However, it will be so nice when it is done.
Have fun!!
It was hard work especially for Steve to crawl in those tight spaces, but it’s finally done!
Thank you for your post. It is very usful. I hope to visit your site.
I’m glad you found it helpful and welcome to Simply Sassafras!
Kimberly